using Radiologik with itunes library on another computer

[Lane]

I guess the first question is, possible?

I've never experimented with shared library stuff in itunes, so I guess I might need to start that.  What I want to be able to do is use a different computer to update and maintain the itunes library of music.  That's where I'll be ripping CD's in, etc.  Would it work properly if I had the iTunes on the Radiologik machine using the music database on the other?  I'm wondering about paths to the actual music file for example.  And are there any concerns about hauling songs over a network?

Since we'll be running almost 24/7 with Radiologik, there won't be a day time window to add music and not interfere with an on air DJ.  Maintaining the library on another machine would be ideal, as it can be done any time.

Are there other users with the same concern?  Have you already tried this?  Feedback very welcome.

[Jay Lichtenauer]

Completely off-the-cuff theory here. I think I've read of other people sharing music across different users on the same computer. There might be some discussion at MacOSXHints.com on sharing across computers. The trouble comes in accessing the same library xml file with two iTunes simultaneously. I don't think that will work. DJ and scheduler expect to talk to iTunes on the same computer right now.

However, here's the theory. Keep the files local. Have an iTunes on a different computer access and maintain. Radiologik DJ and Scheduler would talk to the other computer's iTunes by remote apple events but read the library xml and files locally. A few things I'd have to work out with that before I knew it was possible such as getting paths sent properly to the local position instead of the remote computer's relative path position, etc.

[Lane]

well, both could mount a network volume, and that's where the itunes music folder is.  one just happens to be on the same computer.  I think that would solve the path problem. they could be the same.  even a good old nix style ln -s command would probably do it.

I'm going to actually try that out in the next while.  I bet it's going to work juusst fine.

[Lane]

ok, what I did so far will work, if you can get Radiologik to talk to a network iTunes.

basically, on the radiologik computer I have the public folder as part of my account.  on the other computer, I mount that as a volume.  

I copy my iTunes folder (with music, database) over to that volume.  

I open itunes and change the location of music to that.  

I close iTunes, and then delete the original itunes folder.  

I make an alias of the itunes folder on the radiologik computer.

copy that alias to the Music folder on the iTunes computer.

reopen itunes on the remote computer.

that should be it.  the writing of the xml needs to be done in the alias folder so it's written over to the mounted volume.  itunes knows the location of the music is on the remote volume.  it generates xml.

now on the radiologik computer, we open up a shell and

$ cd /Volumes
$ ln -s /Users/whateveruser/Public
$ mv Public whateveruser

so now the path in the xml file will work on the Radiologik computer.

um, clear as mud?

oh, and I probably changed permission for the Public folder to be read/write for guest, just cuz I'm not concerned about security on the local network.  I log in to the volume as guest, but I suppose you could properly password that.

I've forgotten at the moment how to make that auto mount. another day.

[MetroEast IT]

Hey Lane, Hi Jay.

I'm looking at deploying a setup very similar to what you're suggesting here.  I've taken a moment to look at the "Network mounted iTunes library" info in the Advanced section of the manual.

What I'd like to do is have the library on a network share (being shared by Mac OS X Server)

Should we be using NFS or AFP?

It'd be best if the library we're being maintained by one computer, while the DJ CPU could see the library XML on the network share.  What you've described sounds like it should work.

How'd it go?

[Lane]

I've haven't done any testing with the last few version of radiologik and scheduler, as I've switched back to having everything on one computer. I'm really just a one man station at this point, so I don't feel the need to separate then.  Considering there is some speed penalty operating over a network, for now anyway, I've chosen to have the library local.

Experiment *lots* before putting it into production, and good luck!

[Jay Lichtenauer]

Although technically I've been able to split DJ and Scheduler across two computers, it comes with so many conditions that I'm sure it would be a support nightmare and would frustrate even the more seasoned. Picking out which files can be shared, which can't, and can another copy of DJ be run on the Scheduler computer for prep, etc. are all complicated issues that I'd have to give good understandable solutions to. I did prove that DJ could mark tracks played on a remote iTunes installation but Lane had trouble getting it to work consistently. I've dropped my work on this for now.

[MetroEast IT]

Thanks for the update on this.

Our main concern is the ability to generate a schedule using a cpu other than the DJ system...  allowing management to generate key schedule parts...  while the DJ cpu is in use, where talent would be filling in the missing bits.

I got the impression we could just tag files and drop them into the DJ or scheduler...  is iTunes required?

What about this:
Imagine a scenario where the play count and scheduler app are looking at (what I'll call) the 'Master' library XML on a network share.

>Manager's iTunes is setup to alter the 'Master' library, works with the scheduler app to generate DJ events.

>DJ's iTunes is pointed at a 'Live' copy of the library XML. (while somehow allowing the play count to be pointed at the other library.)

>Both libraries (or at least the XML files) are synced at the server.  The Master XML is a watched file, which when changed launches a script to do the sync.  The 'Master' XML would completely replace the 'Live' copy.  Both live on the server.
(basic script scenario: make a copy with a temp name, delete stale XML, rename fresh XML to replace it. I can write this!)

>The audio files would live in a central share, and the 2 iTunes library folders would be linked to it. (no need to have more than one copy of the media.  Any changes made to the file's tags wouldn't need to be tracked.)

One hole is anything done to update the DJ iTunes library would be lost when the next Manager update occurs.  (Or I could write a script to switch the libraries from DJ to Manager and back...  Hmm..  this needs testing.)  I'm about to get the CPU for this project, so I'll have some feedback on this soon.

About the only way around this limit would be to make some kind of XML sync engine for the library info to be 2 way.  A database arbitration layer... (It's late and I'm beginning to ramble on here.  Sorry, about that.)

[Jay Lichtenauer]

Okay, here's where I can help...

1. You can try having your DJ's Mac mark songs played on the master's iTunes:

On the Master Mac, turn on System Preferences, Sharing-->Remote Apple Events for whichever or all users.

Quit DJ on DJ's Mac and open ~/Library/Preferences/Radiologik/Radiologik DJ Preferences

Find the line:
RemoteiTunesMac=

And change it so it contains your remote Mac's information, something like
RemoteiTunesMac=admin:password@MasteriTunesMac.local

Launch DJ and try playing a track to see if it marks the song played on the Master Library Mac.

2. Beware that the master library's xml file will change with every song marked played so for your syncing you might want to do this on a schedule instead of a modified file trigger.

3. To get the scheduled tracks from the master to the DJ Mac when scheduler has scheduled, you'll need to copy the file:
~/Music/Radiologik/Schedule Playlist
from the relative position on the master to the relative position on the DJ Mac.

[MetroEast IT]

The iMac I'm getting is delayed until tomorrow afternoon (ack!)

I hope to pick it up then, and will be working on this over the weekend.  Thanks for the hints.  I really appreciate this.

[Lane]

Jay, if you're still checking back. I was just doing some testing around this, and had my Scheduler pref set to not launch DJ. Every time it builds a scheduler, it's launching DJ anyway. Just FYI. scheduler version 2010.09.02.

[Jay Lichtenauer]

If RemoteDJ=true in the scheduler preferences, DJ shouldn't launch locally. The preference in the preferences dialog of the program itself only turns the babysitting on and off so it doesn't check every 2 seconds. Even with this off, normally Scheduler will still check to make sure DJ is running at schedule time unless the advanced preference in the text of the preference file itself is properly set. In fact the only function of RemoteDJ=true is to stop DJ from launching locally at schedule time.

[Lane]

I see. That isn't quite what I'd expect by the language in the gui pref. Wasn't obvious to me. Thanks.

[Jay Lichtenauer]

DJ would have never assumed to schedule without knowing what's in DJ's queue so it was always assumed to make sure DJ was running before scheduling. The pref in the gui was put in before this remote idea and still the idea there was make sure it is always running (babysitter mode) beyond the basic 'we'll check on you only when we schedule'.

[Lane]

hmm. so does the scheduler have a way to check the program queue on the remote dj?