Scheduling on a Different Computer

[Tapeleg]

I'm trying to figure out some ways of scheduling automated segments for the DJ app to play on a different computer than actually runs the DJ app for playback.

What I would like to do is have scheduler run a schedule well before the playback of an automated segment would play, manually tweak it, and then import it into DJ. Other than that, there is also the potential of hand scheduling everything (laborious) on a computer that isn't running DJ (for instance, the DJ program is run by a live DJ and I would be creating a schedule elsewhere).

First, I assume that you have to have the same playlists and songs on the two computers and itunes (the one running the station, and the one used for scheduling). After that, I'm not sure what else you would need. I figure a thumb drive for transferring the newly created schedule (sneakernet).

My main thought would  be to create a Scheduler script that would run when it is convenient for you to schedule on the scheduling computer, then tweak the results after that by hand, then save the playlist, and import it to the on air computer. This seems like the best possible solution, but then again, it's pure speculation on my part.

The video tutorials about Scheduler are still a little bit over my head, so I have plenty of work to do.

Thanks for any thoughts you have on this.

[Lane]

if you're going to manually tweak it anyway, you've got your hands in the process, so it doesn't need to be fully automatic. i think the key thing would be to have identical paths to the library on both machines. one easy way to do this is to actually use the same library on both machines, where both machines have the same hard drive name, and the same account name. if they are networked, you could map the music folder on the scheduler computer to be the music folder on the DJ computer. you have to share that folder first of course.  you could then manually run the scheduler, it will read the itunes xml database from the mapped music folder, and generate the playlist. you can have a DJ program on that computer too for manually tweaking the playlist, and just save the program.

does that make sense to you?  i can explain more about how to map the music folder to the other computers music folder, but you need to be sure those computers are networked together.

[Tapeleg]

Lane - I think I understand what you are getting at, and I can't see any reason the computers couldn't be networked.  It would certainly be easier than Sneakernet.  

I did figure the computers would have to have at least a similar library, my initial thought was using "home sharing" in iTunes, which I remember was a topic of discussion in the past. Was it ever the holy grail people expected it to be?

The other nice thing for the 'home sharing' option, if it truly does sync two libraries, is that you could add music on one computer, and have it transfer to the other.

Of course, you could do that over a shared library as well, I guess.  Hmmmm, that is food for thought.

Would there be any hiccups with accessing the same library at the same time from two computers (one is playing back in DJ, the other scheduling)?

How do you run a schedule manually? I thought it only ran 20 minutes before it was to run live on the air.  Is there a "force schedule" function I was un-aware of?  Of course, I'm still RTFM, so if it's in there, I'll stumble on it.  I'm still in a little over my head on the scheduler. Some of the terms are a little confusing and using picks, fills and the like are sometimes a little mind boggling.

Thanks for your help, Lane, and thanks for responding so fast.  I'm still in the Blue-Sky Solutioneering stage of things, so I have time, and a lot of work to do.

[Lane]

The scheduler reads the .xml file that itunes creates, and doesn't interact with the actual itunes database, or with iTunes itself. I don't see a concern here.

Scheduler has a Build Now button. You basically select a schedule, choose an hour, and hit the build now button. It will build a playlist, and transfer it to Radiologik DJ. I do this a lot when I want to voice track an evening of music. I'll build an hour, voice track, build the next hour, voice track etc. I've done 6 hours ahead that way.  If Auto is turned off in DJ on the computer with the scheduler, you'll see your new program appear, where you can adjust etc. and then save it and import it on DJ on the other computer.

[Tapeleg]

Lane - That is perfect. Exactly what I was looking for.  In that case, the next question would be, can you copy the .xml file (like sneakernet scenario) and work off that in iTunes? Probably not, and I'm probably overthinking it.

OK, so scheduler uses the xml file to do it's work. Does DJ use the same thing to create the que / program? Just making sure you don't need the library to work on the program in DJ.  Although, how nice would it be to audition things in DJ? Well, nice, but not necessary. Just interesting.

OK, looks like it's time to get cracking and experimenting. I have plenty of reading (of the manual) and playing around to do. I'm sure I will have more questions for you.  Thanks for the help you have given so far.

[Lane]

It's not practical to copy the .xml. It's constantly being updated by apple, and the files the scheduler chooses might also be available for the scheduler to read, as it gets exact song length times by reading the music files directly. For some reason best known only to mystical creates of the netherworld, iTunes doesn't write accurate song length times in the xml.

I'm not quite sure what you meant in paragraph 2. I'll guess what I think you meant.  After the scheduler builds a program, it hands that off to Radiologik DJ. I forget the exact method it does this, but it's something like writing a special file that DJ reads in.  Radiologik DJ doesn't use the .xml for this process. (DJ does use it another place, when you import your library into DJ).  As for auditioning your program, you could do that on the DJ that is on the scheduler machine. After the program loads into DJ, save it immediately. You could then play it locally to audition it, and you'll still have the saved one. You could also load it back in, make changes, save it out again, and then audition it again if you like.

You're welcome. I'm happy to answer. And other regulars here should feel welcome to butt in too if they want to respond.

[Lane]

I just thought of something that might conflict. I mentioned mapping the music folder earlier to the other computer. I would say to avoid conflicts, do not map the ~/Music folder, but rather, just the itunes music folder, which i think is ~/Music/iTunes. Radiologik has a folder in ~/Music, which you probably don't want to share for your situation.

[Tapeleg]

Lane -

I see what you mean by not copying the xml file. Thanks.

I think that's close enough to what I was attempting to get at with DJ using the xml file. Basically, I was wondering what DJ calls on for information about what it is going to play next (file name, times, etc.), and if this would be any sort of conflict.

Good point about the folder mapping.  Also, I think there are a few other folders in there I wouldn't want to see shared / mapped (nicecast archives, audio hijack pro).

OK, looking at this, would you put the iTunes library on an external networked drive? I know that could slow things down for iTunes, but then again, playing 3-5 tracks at the same time (I figure that's the max with 3 decks, with possible overlaps) shouldn't be too bad for most computers. Or do you store the library on the playback machine, and call it over the network for scheduling from the other computer? Thoughts?

Now that I know you can schedule this way, everything seems soooooo much easier than I thought it was going to be.  Having to schedule on the computer that was running DJ live was a little daunting and scary, from slowing things down to making on air mistakes that interrupt playback with new schedules to audtioning the wrong thing on the wrong channel and having it go out live on air. Not how I wanted to do things.  Plus, I plan on having at least one live DJ (if not two) on weekdays, so I can schedule during their on air shift makes this a more mature product than I had thought it was.

[Lane]

I have run this stuff with the itunes library on a networked drive. It certainly works. Some things will certainly take longer though, which I'll comment on later. I recommend keeping the itunes music on a drive directly connect to the DJ computer, mainly because it makes sense to have the best performance with live music playout.  You don't want any burps on air, and there is a small risk the network could be too busy at a key moment.  The actual iTunes program must be on the same program as DJ, if you have DJ set to update the last played info in iTunes.  The library itself can be on a network, but just know there is some risk of momentary audio blips depending on how busy the network is and other external factors.

Things that will you will notice take longer include items that scan the whole music directory.  For the scheduler, running the schedule itself will take longer. In my experience, it was taking about twice as long. The reason is it reads the xml for the songs, and then it reads data from every single song to get the true song length info.  For DJ, if the music is on a network, it will take longer to import the library.

One thing I just thought of. To use track prep in this scenario, you'll have to launch Scheduler on the same computer with DJ and iTunes. Track Prep uses applescript to ask iTunes for the songs to prepare.  It must speak directly to it on the same machine. This isn't too big a deal though, as it's a do once function that really is separate from scheduling.  I'm in the habit of running track prep every time I add a batch of music to iTunes.

[Lane]

Tapeleg, this is mostly addressed to you, but others might be interested too.

Just thought I'd throw something out there. I've been talking to Jay about the best way to do this kind of stuff.  Let's just say that the best solution requires setting things up just so. I'm scratching my brain and trying to test a lot of different scenarios. Stay tuned to this thread on here if you're interested in running the Scheduler on a separate machine from DJ. I'm hoping we can all benefit from some improvements here, and know I'm actively testing, and will let you know how it settles out.

[asoundhound]

Just wanted to register my interest. This would be something as a full time music intensive station that would be very useful and important to us.

[Lane]

Let me ask you this. If having DJ on one machine and Scheduler on another meant not being able to have DJ also run on the same machine as the scheduler, would you want that?

[Tapeleg]

Lane -

I think it would be a matter of the functionality and elegance of the solution to determine that.  If you could edit a schedule created in Scheduler within that program, I think that would be fine.  Being able to hand edit something created in scheduler seems vital to the solution, but that's just me.  Trying it out is going to be the true test.

Again, I can't stress enough how much of a help you have been. Thank you.

[Lane]

Thanks tapeleg, but I haven't really done anything on this one. Just working out options and possibilities.

Thanks for your feedback. I tend to agree that having the ability to edit a program on the scheduler is important. A typical scenario for me would be to manually build a playlist, display it in DJ, create some voice tracks to stick between songs here and there, and then save that program to be scheduled later.  Now, I could certainly do that from the live to air machine with DJ, but if I want to do that at the same time someone else is doing a live show, I'd be stuck.

Still researching ...

[MetroEast IT]

Lane,
  This might be critical to our future permanent build.  We are starting in a glorified closet, but will be moving to a new location when it's completed.  One stipulation of the workflow imagined is that the library and the bulk of scheduling should be able to happen during live DJ action.

In the grand scenario:
1 cpu workstation to rip and tag (simple networked share)
1 cpu workstation to Schedule and Manage the Library (some kind of advanced library/xml sharing setup)
1 cpu to share the media/library/xml (Mac OS X Server, Leopard or better.) with attached storage.
1 cpu to DJ and automate the 24/7 LPFM (same adv lib/xml sharing)
(maybe 1 more cpu to be identical to the DJ/automate as a backup, both go to a board with analog and performance sources.)
1 cpu to Nicecast (simple network to router)

But to start out with:
1 cpu (laptop) to rip and tag
1 cpu to DJ and automate (to a board along with some of the same analog sources.)
1 cpu to Nicecast

I'm beginning to see that I should be looking for a way to have the sharing and storage at the DJ cpu. (or a copy)  Not ideal, but could eliminate the network playback hiccup concerns.

What does you experience suggest?